The suggestion I am creating (which made me re-login into my account after like 2 months) is in response to this thread. The amount of simps that side with the mods simply because they're mods is absolutely insane to me. How blind can you be to hate this suggestion simply due to the mods hating on it. If you're simping so hard that you can't see the flaws with this broken system, maybe you should be on the onlyfans website.

Anyways, my suggestion goes as follows:

+ Remove the concept of the promotion wave. Instead, promote people when they are deemed ready.

For the mods (and the simps of the mods) that may have ideas such as:
1)

2)

Simply put, no. This process isn't necessary. It doesn't take long to make a well-informed decision on an applicant's commitment and maturity. This is a process that can be done within a few weeks, not a few months. Relating this to the real world, when a person applies to a job, they don't do free work for 2-4 months before being judged on whether or not they are a good fit or are commited towards their job. Applicants shouldn't have to do free work in the forms of reports and whatnot for 2-4 months to show they are committed. And so what, even if a player is not a good fit for the team once promoted, it's extremely easy to demote someone.

Another problem with the wave is that it causes premature or long overdue promotions. Applicant A could be an extremely good applicant and everyone including the head mods could know they are ready for the position, but due to either having a lack of applicants or the other applicants being a bunch of slackers, this applicant could have to wait an extra few months before being applied. Not only are you losing out on the opportunity of having a good, active member of the staff team, but you are risking the applicant closing their application (as seen of many recently). You may argue that this shows that they weren't committed, but waiting 2-4 months for a position that you are obviously capable of doing takes a tole on you.

On the other hand, this system causes some applicants to be promoted prematurely. Applicants B could get promoted simply because they looked good for about 2 weeks. Due to there being a lack of other good applicants, these people get promoted and end up being the sh**tiest mods you have ever seen.

There is no need for a wave. Promote people as necessary and as they prove themselves individually.


If this suggestion gets denied, then I propose another system.

+ Introduce the idea of a demotion wave.

Every time there is a promotion wave, there should be a demotion wave. If the point of the promotion wave is to prove the commitment and activity of certain applicants (in the span of 2-4 months), then this would be a good amount of time to evaluate how certain moderators are doing. If a moderator is inactive or is seen as not a good fit for the staff team within this alloted amount of time, demote them. Like applicants have to prove themselves ready for the position, moderators should have to prove themselves commited and deserving of the position that they hold. There have been and currently are plenty of staff that have been inactive for months on end, and introducing a demotion wave would weed these useless sacks of meat out of the team, thus creating more space for new mods. "OMG we have too many mods already we don't need more promoss!1ss1Z" The demotion wave fixes this.

To the people that will argue in the comments (the same mods and simps of the mods that comment this on every complaint about mod activity) saying that mods have things to do in their lives and can't always be active: there is no reason to stay on a team wasting air and space if you aren't doing anything. We don't need sacks of meat sitting on the team taking up dust. If you know you won't be able to play for multiple months or will only get on for 3 minutes every 2 days to meet your quota and sway the higher staff not to demote you, leave the team.


Anyways, have a good day. All the mods and simps of Mineverse (dot) com, I expect your unrivaled hate and wrath and will combat you till my dying breath.

 

Same for promotion waves. Oh no, I have just applied for 4 months and have now gotten promoted with an ex-mod who has been applying for 2 weeks. How is this fair to me?

Anyways, I don’t care about doing demotions in wave. I just want demotions for inactive and unfit members. Doesn’t happen enough.

Need more headmods then. No point having inactive ones. Input youtuber and maybe sando. We’d have more mods to choose for upper staff positions if we didn’t take 14 years to promote them.

 

Seeing the people complaining about never having staff on or staff members complaining they’re the only ones ever on seems to combat this. Plus, it is summer. Wouldn’t this be the best time to promote people? This is the time the server has the most active playerbase and everyone has free time?

 

Support. Not only this, but most of the staff team isn't even fit for staff by those standards, half of them don't even play the server and just sit on Discord. Also I don't think we even need new mods because the server is so small at this point that only Survival and Skywars are in need of moderation. This also isn't a real job so certain staff members need to also stop taking this so seriously.

Also I agree with the simp thing. I won't mention who but there are certain mods who are always used as banter and to me it just seems like people are sucking up to them. The sad thing is that most people I've talked to on this server are sucking off the mods as if they can't do anything wrong. Of course there's mods like Deathauras etc who are active and examples of what a mod should be but most others are not.

And literally it does not take 5 months for new mods to be decided. Just pick ~10 new applications and see how they go and eliminate the 8 worst ones. Just make them trial-mods or something. It's not like the standards for mod are high, there's been a 10 year old mod in the past.

So to summarize, a good mod doesn't take this position too seriously (because its cringe when a mod talks down to players like they are some high authority figure) and must be down to earth but also active. If mods can't be active a lot of the time then maybe they should consider resigning? But really there needs to be a purge of the staff team and I've heard so many negative things about it from ex mods.

Edit: To add to this, how the hell do they currently accept applicants? Last time someone who applied literally a week before promotions got it while others from months ago with more supports and better applications didn't.

 

That’s literally my point. It will solve the activity issue. A lot of mods after being promoted are extremely active before fizzling out and they begin to do whatever they do. Removing the promotion wave just brings in a constant flow of new moderators, instead of having to deal with the few month periods of having no new active moderators. It’s much better to have a constant flow of new active moderators instead of having one large grouping and then a fizzle out.

Can’t change your mind it seems tho so this’ll be my last response.

Uh
Uh part 2
Uh part 3

I hate to call out certain mods, but some of these guys have been inactive for the longest. Being inactive ingame is one thing. Being inactive on the forums which you can always easily access from any device just shows that you’re unfit to keep your position. I wouldn’t rag on these guys so hard if it wasn’t for the fact that they’ve been inactive for so long.

Look at any mod’s profile page lmfao.

Why does the staff team have such a huge double standard? When it comes to applicants, we’ll let them wait 4 months to even “a year” to get accepted because we’re seeing if they’re committed or not? Have you gone inactive a week before the promo waves? Looks like you’re not getting it.

Oh, but did you just call a mod inactive? You know that this mod has things in their life other than Minecraft and that they can’t play 24/7? They log on like once a week. It’s better than nothing. They’re not even getting paid so don’t rag on them so hard.

This double standard is so insane to me man.

 

As SniffMyToes said, look on any mod's profile. What's funny is that I can even see an example on yours:
I get it's banter but really when it comes to it, the mods are always on the simps' side. These simps only comment on profiles because you guys have mod and that's the only reason they do this banter and they will defend the staff team to the death. Another example of "simp" bias is someone (I won't name them but you can find them on mod applications) who was a "simp" to Quertiss and when they made their application, guess what? Quertiss was the one that accepted them. 90% of the active player base consists of "simps" trying to talk and banter with mods because of their position.
It's funny how almost all of the current applicants are already simps and they probably think that this will help them in their application process (which will probably happen). I just want you to go through your own profile and see how "talkative" people suddenly got with you after you were promoted. This is on most staff profiles (other than the ones who don't even come on and no one has even knows). It's a co dependent relationship. The "simps" fuel the staff egos and the staff provide them with acknowledgement and approval. Even on Discord it's apparent.

Ask yourself, would you promote this person if you had a choice over some other applicant? Exactly, because she's a "simp". (Sorry for calling specific people out but 90% of the community is like this)
What's funny is that the staff are also simps for a specific Sr Mod (you know who it is).

But how do you determine if someone is fit? Some people have tons of supports and many reports and yet they don't get promoted while someone who literally applied a week before promotions got it. You said you waited for many months, and yet someone who decided to apply a week before got it at the same time.

Because mods shouldn't act too too professional for this job. Mods shouldn't be some high authority figure and they should play alongside the players as if they are one of them. Just stop treating this so professionally because it really alienates the staff from the players. Also it's jarring to see some mods act so serious when their profiles are so unprofessional.

I respect the staff team but as Sniff said, there are massive double standards. So new moderators benefit the server and the current staff team only choose applicants on their own whims when they need them while the applicants can wait for years? In the 6 years I've played this server there has never been a stable program on how to recruit new mods and they need to announce dates when they are promoting new mods so people can prepare their reports, because as you said, someone can't be active for such a long time until a higher staff suddenly decides to promote new people.

Exactly! There is someone (won't specifically name them) who I have known for a long time, they helped me build maps for Infection and we played together . As SOON as they got mod, they basically stopped talking to me at all and basically became a different person, starting to banter with the "simps".

And what's funny is that of course it's only staff members who don't support this. (most) Mods are so down to earth for supports until they finally get accepted. As soon as they're in the loop it's over.

 

YOINK i support

 

good joke made me laugh

This is an issue related to how many US mods we have, not how often promos happen. People complaining is a tale as old as time. Skywars complains the most - even when we have 3 mods online and banning hackers. People don't see the banpage and therefore assume there is close to no staff activity.

Omg was it @Aly? (joke)

Eh I'm neutral. Mainly because of what you're saying here. Srmods+ know from my inactivity rants how I think it would be much better for people to step down when they're beyond inactive or burned out, and rather have them reapply and get quickly repromoted when they're back and ready to give it another shot. The issue is that resigning is unfortunately still seen as a big deal because it was in the past. If I recall correctly you and Scorvix even brought this up on Random and Atom's app.

The reason I'm neutral and not supporting is because:
- Not everyone will be able to mentor. Why let Aly mentor when Tuber is creating srmod after srmod from his mentoring? And why should Aly want to mentor when she knows Tuber would do it better?
- Being promoted with others makes you feel like you belong to the group and makes it less awkward to enter the existing staff team. Essentially you're not the only newbie. Neither are you the only one making mistakes or getting a staff report within a week. I dont know if this applies to your wave too, but my wave had banter in getting the biggest ban log for example. Again something that motivates those who were promoted further.
- I think announcing who gets promoted on Social Media functions better when it happens rarely and it's more than 1 person (opinionated)
- A promotion *wave* creates a lot of motivation not only for those promoted, but also the entire team. Just like taking drugs every day is going to lower the excitement, so will weekly promos. Essentially I think frequent promotions that happen on 1 by 1 basis would remove a lot of the hype around it. Everyone gets their standards up again when multiple new staff enter the team to give off a good impression.
- Constantly having new people join and leave also ruins the whole image of a "family that sticks together".


I understand the pain of waiting for ages to be promoted, but I feel like doing it in waves has some major benefits. It has been a long time since the last promotion wave and I agree it's time to have another one even if it's just 2 people like in December 2017. An idea I'd be more on board with is doing the waves more often, even if there aren't many to promote. I have to say that I think you're unnecessarily fueling your hate for inactive mods into the lack of promotions though. They're kind of unrelated even if it comes across as double morale to you. I hate inactive mods too and have been stubborn enough to have extra meetings held because of it, but I don't hate the promotion system. They should be more frequent than this, yes, but I'm not too sure about doing promos individually.

 

yeah ill stop you there this simply is not true, there has never been any "real" work into promotions. it has always been done by senior staff, typically admins. when it was just cypriot, before the days of headmods, he would just ask me who i thought was qualified and they'd get a promo same day. when headmods were introduced after i left, not even they had the authority to pick, and it was usually by random. even after cypriot was thrown out the system remains, only senior staff get a pick, and its usually a very biased pick based on people they generally have come to like, not based on whether or not theyre qualified or not (no names js some recentprecent are most definitely not worth mod) ;i cannot speakfor how you guys have done things since janice became the new hegemon though.

but then again, server is pretty ded these days so idk if this would even help. clearing up mods that havent been active is nice (ig)? but thats really most of the staff team. i know staff who were inactive for more than a year before anyone even noticed. and i think thats more of an issue of leadership than anything. when you have crew as an owner, well, not much to be desired there.

no this is not true, not every staff is fit for staff, otherwise you wouldnt have staff who havent touched a report in months. also you're either blind or willingly ignorant if you dont consider a drop off from 400-800 consistent players to 20-80 a steady pace. this server has lost what made it desireable: its community, which became fed up with crew's 2 year hiatus and the tyranny of cypriot, and its its creative gamemodes, which were innovative for their time period.

regardless you are right in an aspect, if the server didnt make crew more money than it lost him he would have simply shut it down. he did turn down multiple offers to sell. however, i think the day the server turns off isnt too far off. the more people leave the less ranks purchased.


on the actual main topic of demotion waves, im split. on one hand i used to be someone important on staff, on another hand i used to love making flame threads against staff to get them demoted :3:3:3. at the end of the day, i believe this is a non issue. staff wont fix anything. anyone outside of janice and maybe matt (?) can't do much. and there simply isnt a point in adding more mods for an ever shrinking playerbase. heck, its summer break during covid szn and the numbers are so mf dead lmao. there's no real path to returning to what the server was once. ive called this since 2015 when things started to go wrong, and i will continue to say it; as long as crew lacks action, there is no future. no matter how many times you want to reset the same servers, or how many times you delete servers from existing, or cosmetics or maps or aesthetic updates there are, they dont address the real issues. prison, factions, op prison, gta, skygrid; all of these were massive hits that were left to break down with no maintenance then were packed up and shut down. they disrespected prison by giving it a reset then shutting it down just a while later. theyre have been more servers deleted than still exist. regardless, it was a nice place for memories, ill never forget it; part of my teenage years continue to live on these forums. ive just learned to move on with my life, just as everyone else who created the original community, & just as everyone has to eventually in life.

sorry for the monologue. no support, as fun as hating staff is theres no real point in mass demotions.


edit: oh one more thing;

fun fact, this an example of a bad faith argument. if you want to actually get something done, don't use one of these. these two sentences basically invalidate everything you write above it. in general, your entire post is littered with bad faith arguments; the way you have framed this is clearly not for the purpose of garnering support for a new idea, but more like a giant middle finger to anyone who doesn't agree with you. and hey there's nothing wrong with that, i of all people love flaming authority; just do it in off topic instead next time.

then again, it's been a long time since suggestions actually meant something.

 

We've decided to delete the last 3 posts on this thread since they're both off-topic and hate towards Crew. Crew is in no way even related to the topic of this thread.

The system currently being used for promotions was created in ~2016, but with some minor tweaks. Crew, Janice and Matt have no say in who gets staff. The head mods are the staff managers and are the ones handling all staff-related stuff. Neither is there a roll of a die that decides who gets staff. Quert and Kinsey evaluate who to promote and go to Janice for verification that she is okay with who they picked. Unless she is strongly against someone, she has no involvement. Though Quert and Kinsey are the ones choosing who gets staff, their decisions are heavily coloured by the replies on the application, as well as moderator recommendations. A senior mod has close to no bigger say in who gets staff than a regular mod.


This is a suggestion about promoting people individually (not in waves) OR doing demotion waves. Please try to keep this on-topic. There are enough long responses here for head mods to read. We don't need essays about minetime being brought back, why the player count is what it is or who simps for who

 

i'm going to have to go with a neutral here just since i feel for both sides of this not only having been through both sides but also just from a lot of what i've read on this.

this works fine and all but it sounds like everything here could be fixed from more common promotions. in general everyone still gets the same amount of chances to mentor as staff are still being promoted and the system could easily tweak to this new method. in addition, there would still be staff on the team who wouldn't have been promoted too much before yourself, you'd have your mentor and staff group chats all for feedback or assistance.

as for the work needed in promotions, i'm not that much of an expert. however, back in the day it used to be just write down you staff recommendations, give your opinions on candidates in the meeting and comment on applicants like everyone does and then eventually pile or head-mods would relay that to cyp and packages would be sent through, etc. of course, i don't know how it is now and if all sr-mods say it takes lots of work there must be some truth to it.

pressure for someone starting off is never great, however, a bit of motivation to be active? i don't see anything wrong with that. looking over at the screenshots robo has it's clear some moderators haven't been on as much as they should and the idea of demotion waves, however bizarre they may seem, would clear up some spots on the team allowing new staff to join who are willing to give more time to the server.

this is different to not being motivated. you can not be motivated but still hop on the server for a couple minutes on a couple gamemodes and check out the forums which apparently is quite a stretch away from some staff right now.

Spoiler: "simping"

chucked this in a spoiler cause i was halfway through this when i saw sando's comment come through.

i reckon this has always happened here just not as much as it has recently. there's always been this "applicant syndrome" sort of thing here and it's always something to do with people getting promoting or running acting differently than they did. this was covered by a mod, rent i believe, and you can't exactly blame them. someone who is running should act more mature and serious. however, it feels like this has crossed a line recently. people have been treating the mod status as a sort of superiority. as a result of this you have people creating this constant appeal to moderators and i'm not saying some positivity is bad but the way it's delivered comes off childish and cringe which is not exactly how you'd want your staff team reflected. in addition, constant admiration in my experience leads to arrogance which isn't a good fit for the server making the mods themselves feel superior and somewhat change.

with that said, i don't think it's irrelevant so to say. mods are changing creating a gap between them and others and having certain people being held up higher than others with that creating a toxic social hierarchy here but at the same time the cringe argument is poorly voiced in my opinion.

things like this make me loose a bit of faith in either side and just makes the argument that much weaker. not only that but it's better to get some change in than create a turf war between exmods + applicants and the staff team and their "simps".


i myself have been on the staff team twice, been builder before and going again for mod. although others have a clearer picture, i have an understanding on all this. personally, i believe that there should be demotions/promotions more commonly and mods shouldn't be acting with too strongly but i also understand head mods don't have all the time in the world and the staff team are doing what they can.

nonetheless, i also believe a system might work well but still have space to be improved.


anyway, hope what i said made sense but just the two balanced sides to it makes me have to go with neutral.

 

Full support couldnt have said it better. i cant say anything about the staff as robosmith said their ego is fragile mine and his posts were deleted just because we said that. its just hilarious.salt and damage is all i see

kinsey and quert are busy but that doesnt give the WHOLE staff team a reason to not be able to help out after all they should be trustworthy. they can both easily come on for about 4/5hrs and read the applications most of the applicants they alrdy know and can easily make a decision on. individually its so much easier just do 1 promotion a month simple but obviously most of the staff are incompetent. if a staff member doesnt have motivation maybe they should be demoted if they dont want to do their 'job' and u should atleast attempt to motivate them but clearly u cant. i understand if its a new mod but after a while they should be experienced enough to do as well as many other mods. you just admitted that doing it in waves is shameful and isnt fair. EXACTLY so why do it, contradict urself is all u've done

 

Probably the best 3 arguments for either position you might have on this thread. Covered it in a much more professional way than I did when making the big “frick you” post I did yesterday lol.

Anyways, the general theme I see from this is that there are obviously downsides from removing the ongoing system and that the better solution would be to simply have more promotion waves. My general argument is that it doesn’t take as much work for the upper staff or as much time to evaluate an applicant for waves to be taking as long as they are. This is possibly a better way of going about this.

As for the demotion thing, I understand that this will never happen. I mainly brought this up to show how staff have such conflicting views when it comes to “commitment” and “activity” of the applicants or their fellow team. A better way of doing this would be to remove the waves (so it seems I just kinda got these backwards) and to have upper staff do evaluations of the staff team as a whole whenever they see fit to see whether certain staff members should remain on the team.

...but then, there’s this.

Also, no clue why you went in so hard about the simp thing. I just said that cause I think calling people simps is funny. However, there is an issue of people going dead brain and not thinking and simply siding with the mods, but I think this pertains moreso to things like opinions and suggestions than stuff like applications.

Btw since you agreed with me, you’re a simp.

 

I wouldn’t be able to do an off-topic as they would close the thread and ban me for staff disrespect. Mashing it into a suggestion works?

Anyways, is this better?